Shower Bench. Prefab Seat or DIY?

Posted on May 26, 2011 by PanMan

SHOWER BENCHES – HOW TO BUILD A GREAT BENCH!

Shower Benches…what is the best design for benches…here are a few. Bear in mind you dont need any body’s kit. You just need a good bit of skill at knowing how water moves. If you follow the water downhill in your mind, you can plan out a great installation.

Metal Brackets….there are some prefab corner seat frames that you can bolt to the wall. I am not crazy about these only because when someone sits on the bench while showering a lot of water can collect behind the person sitting and can really sent a lot of water at the bolt connections. If you do a good job caulking and sealing the connections you are probably ok.

Precast forms that you can tile over….generally not a bad concept but you need a flange to go up and under your tile….they really need a flange just like a shower pan to do the job. Exactly how you fasten the pan into place is critical and taping and sealant is critical for these to be completely waterproof before they are tiled. I am not a fan of cornerseats because they also  tend to be small and dont leave much “butt-space.”

Studs & Plywood can make a fine seat if you pitch the entire seat and if you put shower pan liner on the top and get it up and under the tile backer and then out over the tiled face of the bench. I like this system as long as you are using a single piece of stone to cover the liner. Tiling the seat portion of a bench is a bad idea, since the grout joints facing up will eventually let water in. Its a tiny bit tricky to wrinkle the liner at the front edge to make sure the water at the front edge doesnt run behind the tile backer.

Stone Shower Bench

Simple Stone Shower Bench that Never Leaks

Trestle benches are probably my favorite design…if fact they are my design. In a large pan you simply cut three pieces of stone and set the seat after the shower pan and walls are tiled. These are assembled with either silicone rubber caulk or epoxy so it is not necessary to fasten through the tile. By cutting two pieces that stand up on edge and a third that spans across you can build the simplest bench that never leaks. Your two vertical pieces need to be made from plywood patterns that you cut to account for the floor’s pitch and the pitch of the seat. The third piece that goes across to form the bench can be held off the wall to allow water to drain out the back. A  stone fabricator can generally make one of these for a few hundred bucks if he can use his dropped pieces from countertop work. They usually have very little use for these small pieces anyway and are happy to make something from them.


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Installing Rigid Type Redy to Tile Shower Pans

Posted on May 26, 2011 by PanMan

HOW TO INSTALL, INSTALLING A REDY TO TILE SHOWER PAN, BASE, TRAY OR RECEPTOR

Why do SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE PROBLEMS INSTALLING THESE PANS?
I see posts all over the web about folks having problems with these pans. First off, they are a little flimsy. The pans flex really easy and if you are lucky enough to get one delivered that isnt damaged you will see you have to be careful since they are brittle and crack really easy. They are made of an expanded foam, not too different than a coffee cup, so while they should service you just fine once installed you need to be extra careful handling it. 

Leveling the Pan: Setting the pan in the standard dry set mortar is what some of the manufacturers recommend. If you have a level floor that is best since it can be challenging to get these to level up. Over the years, many folks have asked me the best way to install a Tile Redi Shower pan and I have coached people from all over the country and its funny how there are regional customs with the names…some call them shower pans, shower bases, shower trays, shower receptors. It doesnt matter what you call it. We will get you squared away here.

Dryfit. Dryfit. Dryfit. Dont bull and jam and try to mortar it down and set a rigid shower pan pan all at once…unless you have done a few.  Dryfit the pan in the enclosure to be sure that the hub for the drain is down into hole you cut for it which is usually about 4 1/2″ to 5″…too big weakens the floor around the drain and too tight can mean you have to force the hub down a little…dont do that. Setting a few shims or marking the studs with a pencil line will help you get the pan on the level.

Over Plywood: With this system you really need to have the second layer of plywood in place since the pans can flex around the drains. This is Tile Council of America standard industry practice for subfloor prep….. 1 1/8″ minimum APA grade plywood. Usually 1/2″ of mortar can work well but only if the floor is stiff. I dont understand why the manufacturer wont specify mortars, but be sure to set the pan in the mortar and then remove it to be sure all the ribs have touched down and are wet. Removing one of those Redy to Tile Shower Bases may take two people but it is worth it to be sure you have no dry spots. Touch up the mortar if necessary and re-set the pan and leave it be until it sets if you can. I prefer not to pound the pan down if I already know it is bedded. If pencil marks are put on the studs then you know you are down. You dont want to flex the pan down or weight it down in the middle. Generally the Ready to tile Shower Tray pans dont need fastening to the studs. If you get one that isnt straight you may need to pull the bow out of it with a few screws. I know people do it but it doesnt seem necessary, especially if you are using their flashing installation system. My personal bug is that the flashing costs about $50 extra for a few little pieces of aluminum that you can buy at HD for about $3.
Note: I have heard of instances when people use waxed or waterproof chip board or osb subfloors and set these directly on them and the mortar doesnt set up because the water is trapped between two layers of impermeable material. You need to use a vapor permeable layer on the second layer of subfloor. I have heard of folks using a urethane based construction adhesive or spray foam on the ribs if you can test for adhesion. Some of those expanding foams can force the pan to rise up or even distort out of shape because they are a little flimsy. If this happens you will have hollows under the pan which can be really bad.

On Concrete: I think the traditional dryset mortar method that some manufactiurers recommend will work fine but I also hear from folks who have used the original non modified thinset mortar because it is easier to work with and stays wet a little longer. None of the thinset mortars should be used to build up an out of level floor. On an out of level concrete floor it may be easier to just build up the floor with some dryset mortar and screed it off level and let it set before installing the pan. In any installation, having a level floor is the easiest way to assure a good install.


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Subfloor Practices for Bathroom Tile & Shower Floors

Posted on May 26, 2011 by PanMan

SUBFLOOR PREPARATION FOR A TILE SHOWER PAN

How do I prepare my subfloor for a Ready to Tile Shower Pan Installation? 

Strength of the joists: Generally the strength of the joists and the joist spacing come first. Most twentieth century construction is adequately rigid and / or strong enough  to support tile. I like to say if it strong enough  and prepared well enough for a direct tile installation then you will have no problem installing any tile shower pan whether it be fiberglass, components or the ready to tile type. Joists which have been cut down, notched or modified in previous remodels can create a springy floor and should be addressed….maybe doubled up or bridged and blocked so they are stiff.

Plywood Floors: Floors are constructed generally in wood homes with two layers with the first layer being 5/8″ or 3/4″ plywood called the subfloor which fastens to the joists. The underlayment goes over that and in most systems the second layer of 1/2″ or 5/8″ plywood makes a floor suitably strong enough for tile. The general rule of thumb is having 1 1/8″ of solid plywood. Gluing plywood to the joists and between layers makes it even stronger. It has become common for builders to install a second layer made of fiber cement or cement board as a second layer.

Board Floors: Tongue and groove board floors or just plain square edge boards on the joists are usually not rigid enough to count as a layer in the floor assembly. In this case it can be fine to put a layer of 3/4″ over the existing board floors but sometimes it makes sense to cut the board floors out if you need to minimize the height of the new floor or you are trying to level the floors. If you can only add a minimum of plywood over a board floor you may want to consider a crack isolation membrane.

Concrete: 4″ to 5″ of concrete is generally a solid slab to install your tile over. Many concrete floors are not level and it may be a good practice to use a pourbale leveling compound to get a good level floor to build on or even to use mortar and screed off the floor to a level surface. Cracks usually are a problem that need to be addressed and there are crack isolation membranes in sheet form or pourable liquids that will prevent the tile from attaching to those shifting surfaces.

Cementboard & Fibercements: These products dont generally add much strength and add some extra dead weight to the floor so they are not my first choice but they work fine. it is typical to use a thinset mortar to install these over your plywood floor.

Uncoupling or Isolation  Membranes: There are waffle type materials out there on the market that are thinsetted down over a plywood subfloor and can be used in place of the second layer of underlayment and they are generally excellent but not cheap. These are great as a crack isolation membrane and they can minimize the thickness of a new floor. There are also liquids that can be painted or poured on to isolate a floor that moves.

Extra Help: There is a third party agency called Tile Council of America which sets standards, or TCA Guidelines for preparation of surfaces for Tile and they have a booklet that is very handy to reference.

 


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